Prove it! Bible thumpers have NO Proof.

Mknight,

That is the problem "Religion". Until we can all learn to put down the Religion and pick up the creator (God), there will always be wars, hatred, killing and the likes. It doesn't matter about the church name or affiliation, God is the God of all people, not just who goes to what church.

Until we learn how to love each other and how to treat our neighbor right, and until we can learn how to love God and embrace God's word, wars will continue, hate will continue, killing will continue and self destruction will continue. We need to put down our weapons and pick up God's word.

I am not a member of Religion, but I am a member of the body of Christ.

Be Blessed  

Dear Mknight,

You remind me of Christopher Hitchens' angry book "God is not great:  Why religion poisons everything".   The claim is often made that religion has caused more deaths than anything else.  Actually, if you look at the 20th century, you'll see that ALL the mass murderers were atheists:  Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot - and of course the rabidly anti-religious regime in North Korea.   Yes, much truly dreadful violence has been done in the name of religion over centuries.   But let me put it to you that the history of religions is an amalgam of what the original teacher taught, and the way that HUMAN NATURE has used the umbrella of the religion to distort and pervert it.  
 
Christianity was persecuted for 300 years until Constantine legalized it in 313 and Theodosius made it the official religion of the Roman empire about 50 years later.  While illegal, it remained fairly faithful to Christ's teachings, apart from some arguments over doctrine.  When "official", it lost the plot, got into bed with the government, pursued temporal power, became a vehicle for personal power agendas, leading to violence and intrigue, the depravity of the Inquisition, selling of offices, selling of indulgences.  But this doesn't vitiate the teachings of Christ;  rather it demonstrates the truth of the innate depravity of man.   
 
I look at the world around me, even in my own, peaceful country (Australia) and I am absolutely convicted that man's natural tendency is to evil.  It is only by moral and example-based education that we gave a hope of rising above depravity.

 
I am a Christian and believe that the value of Christianity is to be found, not in "C hurchianity" - the veneration of the edifices, cultural achievements, bells and smells etc, but in understanding and acceptance of what Jesus said when he explained "my kingdom is not of this world".  He said "the kingdom of God is within you" and he called us to personal transformation and holiness of life and our relationships.   Christianity gives self-control, focus, concern for others as well as yourself, and a satisfying and constructive quality to one's life.  
 
Compare the positive impact of this REAL Christianity on people's lives with the aimless, de-cultured, nihilistic lives of the people you see in any number of (essentially post-Christian) Western cities with faces full of metal, their bodies graffiti walls, interchanges with their peers a mixture of inanities and profanities - reflecting a lack of esteem either for themselves or anyone else, a total loss of any sense of community, and a lack of direction and goals in their lives.  These are some of the worst results of our loss, as a civilization, of belief in a sacred beyond, of anything outside of and greater than ourselves, and the postmodernist, nihilist concern only with 'me-me-me', and NOW!
 
Islam spread by violence and conquest.  For a while it was conducive to spiritual introspection and intellectual inquiry, but then it closed the gates of 'ijtihad' ( independent critical thought), persecuted its contemplative, personally spiritual strand (Sufiism), and after the 18th century, descended into the fanatical cesspit of Wahhabiism.   This started in Saudi Arabia, to be increasingly exported elsewhere - and is now at war both with other strands of Islam and with the rest of the world.  As Samuel Huntington says, "Islam has bloody borders and bloody innards".    Does Islam improve the quality of life of the world?  Absolutely not.
 
Buddhism is an elaborate form of secular humanism (recognizing no "God") but it shares with the great monotheistic religions a belief (karma) that what you do in this life determines what happens to you in the next.   This produces very benign ethical conclusions about how we are to live.   It certainly can improve the quality of personal, family and community life.
 
Immanuel Kant said in The Critique of Pure Reason that there can be no proof for the existence of God - but that it is in everyone's interest to behave AS IF he exists.  In other words - we should accept the discipline of a moral law that is not just something we make up ourselves as a purely situational, relative rationalization of our self-interests.
 
Dostoyevsky, in The Brothers Karamazov, has one of the brothers (Ivan) say, in effect, If God doesn't exist, then everything is permitted.   Indeed .... and when people act as if God doesn't exist, unless they are among the small proportion of humanity that is highly educated and personally reflective (this includes some humanists), they are likely todo absolutely what they like, when they want, without regard to the consequences of their behaviour either for themselves, their families, their acquaintances and their communities.   
 
I don't excuse the abuses in the history of religion.  I merely point out that a religion which focuses on the good, the beautiful and the holy, and is internalized in yourself, in the way you relate to other people and to God, the source of goodness, holiness and beauty, is a powerful and wonderful antidote to the evil inherent in man, shown in his capacity to be callous, cruel, rapacious and self-seeking.

 

MCKNIGHT...I had often asked myself much of the same questions that have made you very angry...I do know that when I realized that the word RELIGION covers every faith-based denomination in the world, including satanism,the search was on!  So, with that out of the way, I'd like to tell you something I learned about that.  When I began to read the Bible, and came to the the book of Proverbs,3:5, it says (NIV) "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding: in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight" , that was to me a confirmation of what I felt in my heart. The first part of that verse is what spoke the loudest to me...that means if you listen to someone else tell you anything about anything, you better know if what they are saying is true or not, and I'd better find out for myself by studying what it means from more than one point of view.  Do I believe what they all say, no not by any means.  The Bible was origionally written in the Greek and Hebrew languages, with an influence of several others and the words are translated into the closest meaning. I do not lean to my own understanding, but know that the word of God had to be right when the books were written, or he put them to death.  That means, tell the truth. There are many that twist the word of God, and try to live by the laws of the Old Testament, which we cannot possibly do, and their own personal need for recognition, has led them to do this. but just to believe, with out knowing what is that persons own thought on the issue,  NO WAY, but for us to remember the ways of old and " teach them in the way they should go and they will not depart from it"...the basic right and wrong of the inate knowledge of what you were given at the time you were created. Satan, the greatest deceiver of all time, has been at his schemes from the day he was kicked out of heaven.  There is one faith that says that satan is Jesus brother,NOT TRUE, and this isn't even in the King James Bible, which is the closest translation to the Greek and Hebrew we can get. Yes it's a little hard to read, but the Living Bible, or the New International Version are great as well.  I'm a member at Woodland Baptist Church, and you can ask my pastor anything you like.wdbc1@sbcglobal.net. or perhaps I can steer you to some research material that will lead you to a deeper understanding of what you seek.Please don't think all Christians are red-necks, there is a greater issue here than hatred,ignorance and stupidity it will only become worse as time passes.

because different people have different beliefs Well, all of us have different spiritual experience . What matters is on how we use that experience in our lives, how we become better persons with it and on how we interpret it.

Hello Mknight,

"Hate in any form is BAD."  Have you read your own post?

Peace.

Hi,

I want to try and answer this question?  The Greek word Religious is Threskeia, pronounced [thrace-ki'-ah].  It actually means ceremonial observance.  It comes from the Greek word, "threskos, pronounced [thrace'-kos], which means ceremonious in worship.  It means fearing God, pious, religious.  This word religion describes one who accepts God's will, one who is devout, reverent toward God, pious, worshipful, and a friend of God.

Many people claim to be religious, however, acknowledging spiritual things does not make one religious.  Even though the bible uses this word religion, the more common word relationship could be used in its place.  Those who have true religion are those who have a relationship with Jesus Christ.  You may not like my answer, and I promise I am not intending to be mad or hateful towards you or any other.  I just want to clear up these feelings that you may have.

The reason's we have hate and wars, and the reason it is blamed on religion is because those who acknowledge spiritual things claim that in the name of God they do the things they do.  This has made God look like an evil person.

In reality, I also want to say, even those who do have true religion (relationship with Jesus Christ), they are only human beings.  None of us are perfect, we all have made bad mistakes, things we each regret.  I have, and you have.  It is only through surrender to God that he can help us overcome the evils in this world such as hate & war. 

Each of us are depraved individuals, and each of us are sinners, including myself.  But, by the grace of God, we are able to separate ourselves from these behaviors.  We must be willing to do that which our flesh, our human nature disagree's with.

As I mentioned earlier, Religion has a bad rapp because of those who claim to have a relationship, devotion too, and are friends of God, but are either living in complete rebellion when they know the truth, or have never really known the truth.  God is actually a loving God.  Of course, just as God is one of love, He is also one of judgment.  But, whenever judgment takes place, its not because God delights in the sorrow, pain, and loss of others.  God is actually just as hurt as those who are facing these wars.  The reason of wars is not religion, it is because of sin.

We have brought these things upon ourselves.  Even when we disagree with such things as hatred and wars, if it were not for the sins that we have committed, none of us would ever face these things.

For those who are living in hatred, and for those who war among themselves, their is an answer to these things.  (2 Corinthians 5:15) And He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

(John 14:6) "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me (Jesus Christ)

(Acts 4:13) Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

(James 4:7-9) Therefore submit to God.  Resist the devil and he will flee from you.  Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.  Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.  Lament and mourn and weep!  Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

The answer to hatred/wars is to turn to Jesus.  We are to humble ourselves by recognizing that we are the reason for these things in our world, we are to repent, and we are to turn to God through his Son Jesus Christ.

Also, the answer from tippy is actually a wonderful answer, and the scripture he has in the box beside the answer is one of great importance.  We must have love.  Sometimes, people never experience true love, therefore they act the way they do, and sometimes, just as couples have said they have fallen out of love, men has fallen out of love with their savior, Jesus.

We fall out of love by not working on our relationship.  We cannot determine the actions of others, but we can determine our own actions.  We must choose to walk in love.  There will always be hatred and wars, but when Christ returns, these things will no longer be issues.  For wars and hatred with be desolved one day, but until then, control our own actions.

Jon

Sponge, I fail to see the humor in your link to a tarot card reading site.  Since that is superstition, it belongs in the superstition folder.

Here, we seek spiritual truth, not a carny con artist telling naive young people when they will meet their "one true love."

Are we finally on the same page?

Midnight, I am truly sorry that you are an atheist.

In time, you will find that you have been misled -- very severely -- to the most bloodthirsty false religion that ever caused war. 

We who know God, to the absolute contrary, really are the instruments of peace and enlightenment.

One day, Midnight, you will see the stygian darkness you are in and will come to want for the light of reason, that surely shall bring you up the next step to faith.

Until then, my son, you are stuck down in the atheist superstition.

I pray that your journey out of darkness will not be a rough one.