Was there a flood before Noah's flood where God distroyed the world?

I think it is a reference to the Great Flood of Noah's time.  Of course God promised that He would never again destroy the world by flood, but it will be destroyed by fire.

2Pet 3:5 refers to the state of the earth when first created in Gen 1:2,9.  2Pet 3:6 refers to Noah's flood. "world" in this v is kosmos signifies order or arrangement . Such as the political, religious or social structure of a state. During Noah's flood, these were all swept away and destroyed.  2Pet 3:7 But were reformed again when the Israelitish "heavens (the Jewish rulers) and earth" (those ruled/common people) came into existence at the giving of the Covenant at Sinai. Deut 32:1, Isa 1:2, Hag 2:6.  These are "kept in store; reserved unto fire; the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."  The mode of destroying the Kosmos or existing order of things in the time of Noah was by water; but the political heavens and earth in the days of Peter - the Kosmos of his day - were to be purged by fire. The destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 was a day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, as Peter had warned in his Pentecostal address. Act 2:19,20,40.

v12 & 13 Speaks of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in power and great glory to establish the world wide Kingdom of God with Jerusalem as its capital. In those days it will be the Gentile "heavens" (the governments around the world) that will be destroyed and replaced by the rule of the Lord Jesus Christ and His redeemed saints.

After a period of 1000 years they too will pass away and God will be "all and in all". See Rev 21:1 "no more sea" signifies no more individual nations.  But the world will then be blessed in Abraham and in his seed. 

"Satan" simply means adversary. The origin of sin is not Satan/Devil/Lucifer. But the heart of men and women. See Jam 1:13/15; Mark 7:20/23; cf Jer 17:9.

The following are referred to to as "Satan" or adversary.

God, 2Sam 24:1 cf 1Chron 21:1

An obedient divine angel, Num 22:22

Hadad the Edomite, 1King 11:14

Peter, Matt 16:23

Kid, your interpretation of Jer. 4:23-27 is not talking about a pre-Adam flood. The context of the fourth chapter before these verses and after them is talking about the desolation of Judah and Jerusalem, because of their rebellion against God, when God sent them into captivity. Jeremiah was being literal and metaphoric in his description of God’s judgment. You have not used correct exegesis.  It we do not interpret scripture in the context in which it is written we find ourselves believing things that are contrary to message that God is telling us in His Word. This is a major reason why we have so many different denominations, and a lack of unity among believers in Christ.

With this correct exegesis of Jer. 4:23-27, you have also misinterpreted 2 Peter 3:5-13. 2 Peter 3:5-6 is talking about Noah’s flood, verse 7 is talking about the present and verses 10-13 is talking about what will happen shortly after the thousand year reign of Christ, when God will either cleanse the earth with fire, or destroy it and create another one in its place where the new Jerusalem will descend out of heaven and land on the new earth; with this being said heaven will still be a separate place from the new earth (Revelation 3:12 and Revelation 21:1-3). The New earth will not be heaven, but what we will experience will be like being in heaven.  

Samuel samuside@aol.com 11:01 pm EST 10/15/2009

Kid

Gen 1:2   The Hebrew words tohuw and bohuw are nouns not verbs. The earth did not become empty and destroyed, the noun implies it already had no form, empty, nothingness before God called the dry land to appear and created the vegetation.  Psalms 104:5-7 is talking about the creation account in Genesis. There was not even a Sun or stars until God spoke them into existence, His voice like thunder.

John 17:24 Jesus did not say this "he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world" He has chosen them BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD! Jesus was talking about the glory he had before the foundation of the world; Jesus was talking about himself not the disciples or us.  

You give the indication that you know scripture. We did not exist is a “corporeal from” before the foundation of the world. God has “foreknowledge” knowing all things before it happens. In God’s foreknowledge we existed before he created anything as we know it now, even you and me.  God foreknew who would accept Jesus as Savior before the foundation of the world and who would not; having rehearsed His plan first, He then proceeded to speak it into existence.

 In God’s foreknowledge I chose Him before the foundation of the world; God knowing I would, and my potential created a destiny for me to live out in Christ (my “calling”), the same is true for all who have lived, are living, and will live. We are the vessels fitted unto honor, the vessel fitted unto dishonor are those who God “foreknew” what not accept Jesus as their Savior, but they had to be born for God’s plan concerning us to be accomplished; Paul wrote about all this in the book of Romans. We have become His chosen because of the choice we made for Him before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4-6 speaks a little about this, but there are numerous other scriptures that can be posted.

Isaiah 45:18 is talking about the Genesis 1 account of Creation.

You are not using Jeremiah 4:23-27 correctly (in its context) when you suggest that because it sound like Jeremiah is talking about creation or a flood that that is what Jeremiah is referring to. In context, Jeremiah is not talking about a pre-Adam flood he is talking about the desolation of the land of Judah and Jerusalem. You are in error about this. You cannot pull a scripture text out of context and use it in conjunction with another scripture text that is speaking of something different; doing this creates a misuse of the scriptures which you have been doing, (i.e. the Creation of human life and a flood).

Both 2 Peter 3:5-7 and 20 are referring to Noah’s flood, neither these scriptures nor Gen 1 is talking about a pre-Adam flood. If there was a pre-Adam flood the mention of eight souls would not apply since Noah was not alive then and neither was any man, this is a “given.”

When all of the scriptures you have posted are used correctly, as well as the Hebrew and Greek, they will not confirm your conclusion. I believe I would be correct in assuming that you having misused scripture concerning the two subjects you have posted that you most likely have misused and misinterpreted other scripture texts and topics. Like you said what need is there for us to discuss this anymore. I know you are misusing scripture, but only God can convince you of this. Knowing you are misusing and misinterpreting scripture you will never convince me you are correct in your exegesis.

Samuel   10/16/2009

kid (thinks this answer is Not Helpful)

Samuside this is the way you say you were saved, I have to back away from you because you are not of God. Enough said

 In God’s foreknowledge I chose Him before the foundation of the world; God knowing I would, and my potential created a destiny for me to live out in Christ (my “calling”),

Kid,

I would assume you are asking about my testimony when I gave my heart to Christ and what happened the day I did? I will share this with you in another answer because of the length if given the opportunity. I don’t recall you ever sharing your testimony and the kind of church you attend.

I could assume you are not a Christian, but I chose not to do that because I don’t know you will enough to make that judgment, even though I see problems with your use and interpretation of scripture; just like you did with this quote.

I need to know what your understanding of the “foreknowledge” of God is to see if I can better clarify my statement and understanding about God’s foreknowledge for you? Much of my theology and doctrine about this is in what Paul said to the Romans and Corinthians, although there are other scriptures throughout the other epistles. It is a lengthy discussion but I will share it with you as synoptic as I can. I do not have the time this late to devote to an answer; this will mean more days to share with one another.

Samuel  10/16/2009 9:58 pm EST

Samuside I only have this to say to you.                                     
Sacrifices dishonoring to God are exposed and condemned.

Kid, the assessment of me that follows this statement in your last answer is incorrect and grossly exaggerated; you are being very carnal in your response to my answers. I am trying to help you rightly divide God’s word (exegesis). I did not say I was a Pastor, but I am called to preach, the best way it can describe my calling is a Revivalist. Anyone who has a clear understanding of God’s word would know that I am not out in “left field” with what I share. I am a mail carrier for the USPS. I know how to fellowship with God and have an excellent relationship (not a religious one) with Him, something I am called to encourage other believers is Christ to do, and to preach about what God has done to make this possible; it is the same kind of relationship Jesus had with the Father, there is nothing mystical or cultish about this. When we use scriptures out of context we create incorrect doctrines and cause the things of God to be ridiculed and despised. My walk with God is not shallow.

Samuel  10/16/2009 10:44 pm EST

Kid,

All of what you said happened to you, when you repented of your sins to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of your life, happened to me when I repented of my sins over 37 years ago. We all have a testimony of the experiences God used to lead us to the day we gave our life to Christ; this is what I wanted to know if you were asking for, your long dissertation about what happens at conversion was not necessary to answer my question.  I know that the church is the body of Christ, not any particular denomination or building.

The word of God tells us that we are to gather together with other Christians (Heb. 10:25); this is why church buildings were built. It is not necessary for you to complicate a simple answer to my questions, you are not talking to a novice, and the Holy Spirit has given me the ability to understand scripture and to use correct exegesis. You continue to behave like a child instead of a mature Christian when you write to me. Is it possible for you to have a mature conversation without acting like a child, or am I talking to an adolescent (teenager)?

  If you do not gather with other believers to worship God and hear His Word on a regular basis, this would explain why some of your theology and doctrines are twisted. If the entire body of Christ believed your doctrine about creations and floods, there would not be a problem with me believing it, but you are in a very small minority concerning your interpretation of scripture related to these two topics and even worse if you believe the pagan belief about “Lilith” is Biblical (I mention this because there are some who do).

____________________________________________________

Now concerning “election”… “God choosing us” I will use your statement.

[We cannot exclude God’s foreknowledge when talking about Election or being Chosen]

“Before the creation of the universe God thought of me. He fixed his gaze on me and chose me for himself. He did not choose me because I was already in Christ of my own doing, but that I might be in Christ. He did not choose me because he saw me as a believer, but so that I might become a believer. He did not choose me because I chose him, but so that I might choose him. He did not choose me because I was holy or good but so that I might become holy and good.”

(Before the creation of the universe God thought of me) This is God’s foreknowledge. God foreknew that I would one day give my life to Christ, before His creation of the universe; He also knew who would not give their life to Christ. It was based on His foreknowledge of who would accept Christ as Savior that He chose us, and established the maturing process that would cause His character to seen through the way we live our life in Christ.

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30 [“Chose” in Eph.1:4 must be understood in the light of what Romans 8:29-30 says about God’s foreknowledge for correct exegesis about how and why God chose us].

God’s foreknowledge of the fact that I would give my life to Him (of my own free will, God did not force me to repent, I chose to) before He created the universe and all that is in it, is why He chose me. It is with His foreknowledge that He also instituted (predestinated) a plan that would involve our becoming like Jesus. The way we become like Jesus is found in His character; the image (Gk. Eikon) moral likeness of his Son.

                   Eikon   an image, figure, likeness

                    A. an image of the things (the heavenly things)

1.  
   1.  
      1. used of the moral likeness of renewed men to God
      2. the image of the Son of God, into which true Christians are transformed, is likeness not only to the heavenly body, but also to the most holy and blessed state of mind, which Christ possesses

                    B. the image of one

1.  
   1.  
      1. one in whom the likeness of any one is seen
      2. applied to man on account of his power of command
      3. to Christ on account of his divine nature and absolute moral excellence

Jesus always obeyed God, and His conduct or behavior always demonstrated what is the “fruits of the Spirit,” which is also God’s character; this character is in God’s “righteous nature” which the Holy Spirit places in our heart, to give us the born-again experience when we repented of our sins to live for Christ.

Calvin’s doctrine of God choosing some and neglecting the rest, has to either ignore God’s foreknowledge or twist it to conform to his incorrect belief about God choosing us and not all of humanity. God’s word says He wants ALL to come to repentance:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.  2 Peter 3:9   [Either Calvin is wrong or Peter is; I will go with Calvin being wrong.]

Having written all of this, there is evidence in scripture that God does raise up specially chosen people that He will use to carry along His salvation plan for this Creation; i.e. Moses, Pharaoh, and thousands more before and after them. The Apostle Paul talking about Pharaoh, and why God let the people who would not accept Christ be born, is found in Romans chapter nine.

________________________________________________

If you read John 17:24 slowly and in context you will see that Jesus is talking about himself and the glory he had with the Father before the foundation of the world; He is not talking about what is written in Eph. 1:4. You are not using correct exegesis when you use Eph. 1:4 to interpret John 17:24. Yes, they are talking about something before the foundation of the world, but they are talking about two different subjects.

Samuel samuside@aol.com 9:02 pm EST 10/17/2009

·         Samuside, you have never said how it was you came to know the father,(God) or where your knowledge and understanding of scripture comes from.

I have shown and said in words how I know God and where my understanding of scripture comes from.

Lets here it, or remain silent and be though  a fool, or keep speaking as you have been and remove all doubt .

·         Samuside, thats just you talking when you say I DID WHAT YOU DID  bullshit  I want to here the holy spirit speak, like it did from in me, it will say more than I DID WHAT YOU DID  those are FLESH words YOUR words. Let the holy spirit speak if it's there, Let it tell the spirit in me of it's self, and how it got there.

Is it there,  If it's not then It can not say how it Got there. IT WILL NOT SAY I DID WHAT KID DID  thats how I'm here in samuside, I DID WHAT KID DID..

I'm for real the holy spirit spoke from me, how it got in me word for word,

When someone ask me how did I recieve the holy spirit of God, I  don't say I DID WHAT SO AND SO DID. God don't say do what so and so did and I will give you my spirit.

What was it you did, that I did  how did you recieve Gods holy spirit?

Is that what you tell people when asked how did you recieve the holy spirit of God,  I DID WHAT KID DID   or has any one with the real holy spirit of God in them ask you?  I guess I

Kid,

Based on what you said in your last two answers and the use of filthy language I am positive that you do not have the Holy Spirit like you say you do. What you really have is a religious, worldly, carnal, and liberal experience concerning what Christianity is not. Your rage is also confirmation of this assessment of you. Your misuse and misinterpretation of scripture is also proof.

The book of Acts clearly shows God’s people do not receive the Holy Spirit at conversion. To receive the Holy Spirit we need to pray for Him to fill us. First we repent of our sins, when this is done from a sincere heart, God removes the sinful nature that is in our inner man, then replaces it with His righteous nature; this is the born again experience. After this we need to pray to receive the Holy Spirit. The born again experience is not receiving the Holy Spirit; it is receiving God’s righteous nature.

To receive the Holy Spirit takes another prayer me need to pray for Him to fill us; Acts 8:15-19 and Acts 19:6. When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive the power (dunamis) to obey God’s perfect will for our life, which is obeying what the Holy Spirit tells us to do; with this power we receive the ability to do miracles and the rest of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to flow through our life.  All of what I have written was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit, as well as correct exegesis of God’s word. The day I gave my life to Jesus, I also prayed to receive the Holy Spirit and I did. The book of Acts shows that when a Christian receives the Holy Spirit there is something manifested for all to know we have, the most common manifestation is the glossalalia; this is what I was given when I received the Holy Spirit.

I don't expect you to understand any of this for you have yet to understand anything I have told you since we have been speaking to each other through our writing.

Samuel  12:39 am EST 10/18/2009